Legislature(1993 - 1994)
01/21/1994 09:05 AM Senate STA
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SENATE STATE AFFAIRS COMMITTEE
January 21, 1994
9:05 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Loren Leman, Chair
Senator Robin Taylor
Senator Johnny Ellis
Senator Jim Duncan
MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator Mike Miller
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE FOR SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 2
Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the State of Alaska
relating to the rights of victims of crimes and to penal
administration.
SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 39
Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the State of Alaska
to guarantee, in addition to the right of the people to keep and
bear arms as approved by the voters at the time of ratification of
the state Constitution, that the individual right to keep and bear
arms shall not be denied or infringed by the state or a political
subdivision of the state.
SENATE BILL NO. 33
"An Act relating to grants for local emergency planning committees
and emergency response organizations; and providing for an
effective date."
PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION
SJR 2 - No previous senate committee action.
SJR 39 - No previous senate committee action.
SB 33 - See Community & Regional Affairs minutes dated
2/23/93 and State Affairs minutes dated 3/3/93,
3/31/93, 11/29/93, 1/19/94.
WITNESS REGISTER
Senator Dave Donley
State Capitol, Juneau, AK 99801-1182¶465-3892
POSITION STATEMENT: prime sponsor of SJR 2
Margo Knuth
Criminal Division, Department of Law
P.O. Box 110300, Juneau, AK 99811-0300¶465-4049
POSITION STATEMENT: testified on SJR 2
Janice Lienhart
Victims for Justice
619 E. 5th, Ave., Anchorage, AK ¶278-0977
POSITION STATEMENT: in favor of SJR 2
Charles McKee
1508 W. 3rd Ave., #7, Anchorage, AK 99503¶
POSITION STATEMENT: testified on SJR 2 & SJR 39
Annette Kreitzer
Staff to Senator Leman
State Capitol, Juneau, AK 99801-1182¶465-2095
POSITION STATEMENT: prime sponsor of SB 33
Mike Conway
SPAR Director, Department of Environmental Conservation
410 Willoughby Ave., Juneau, AK 99801-1795¶465-5250
POSITION STATEMENT: in favor of SB 33
Duane Udland
Anchorage Police Chief
4501 S. Bragaw, Anchorage, AK¶286-8552
POSITION STATEMENT: testified on SJR 39
Portia Babcock
Staff, Senate State Affairs Committee
State Capitol, Juneau, AK 99801-1182¶465-2095
POSITION STATEMENT: prime sponsor of SJR 39
Ray Advik
P.O. Box 369, Gakona, AK 99586¶822-3151
POSITION STATEMENT: in favor of SJR 39
Dan Puritte
Box 142, Gakona, AK 99586¶822-3151
POSITION STATEMENT: in favor of SJR 39
Jim Frey Sr.
SR Box 360, Gakona, AK 99586¶822-3019
POSITION STATEMENT: in favor of SJR 39
Richard Bishop
Outdoor Council
1555 Gus's Grind, Fairbanks, AK 99709¶455-6151
POSITION STATEMENT: in favor of SJR 39
Don Duncan
Licensed Guide Outfitter
299 Alvin Street, Fairbanks, AK 99712¶457-8313
POSITION STATEMENT: in favor of SJR 39
Mark Chryson
Gun Owners of America
2140 Wolverine Circle, Wasilla, AK 99654¶376-8285
POSITION STATEMENT: in favor of SJR 39
Joe Murdy
Anchorage Assembly Member
1904 W. 46th Ave., Anchorage, AK ¶248-4143
POSITION STATEMENT: testified on SJR 39
Fred Heinz
P.O. Box 125, Gakona, AK 99586¶822-3308
POSITION STATEMENT: in favor of SJR 39
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 94-2, SIDE A
Number 001
CHAIRMAN LEMAN calls the Senate State Affairs Committee to order at
9:05 a.m.
Number 003
CHAIRMAN LEMAN brings up SJR 2 as the first order of business
before the committee today. The Chairman calls Senator Donley as
the first witness.
Number 027
SENATOR DONLEY, prime sponsor of SJR 2 states that SJR 2 will do
two things: one, it will set out specific rights in the
constitution of victims of crime; two, it will make changes
regarding penal administration. Currently, penal administration
guidelines list the principal of reformation and public safety as
the basis for penal administration and do not specify which aspect
of administration is more important.
SJR 2 would list several other aspects for consideration in penal
administration and would prioritize those aspects. Those aspects
are, in order of importance: public safety, rights of victims, and
the principal of reformation.
Number 061
SENATOR DONLEY declared that to that list, he would like to add
community condemnation of the offender as second in the order of
importance.
Number 070
CHAIRMAN LEMAN suggests also adding restitution to the previous
list of aspects of penal administration. He suggests inserting it
just before reformation. The list would be as follows: public
safety, community condemnation of the offender, rights of victims,
restitution, and the principal of reformation.
Number 101
SENATOR DONLEY agrees with Chairman Leman regarding adding
restitution as an aspect of penal administration.
Number 112
CHAIRMAN LEMAN calls for the representative from the Department of
Law to testify.
Number 113
MARGO KNUTH, Criminal Division, Department of Law, announces that
the Department of Law supports victim's rights but is concerned
with the proposed constitutional amendment as it is currently
drafted. The department believes the constitutional amendment
would do three things, one of which it is in favor, the other two
of which it is not in favor. The effect of the constitutional
amendment the department favors would balance some of the
constitutional rights the defendant has with rights of the state
and rights of the victim. The aspects which the department is not
in favor of are creating rights that victims would be able to
enforce against prosecutors, and creating tort liability against
the state when a failure in the process occurs. Ms. Knuth comments
that she does not see the language where it is suggested
restitution be inserted.
Number 176
CHAIRMAN LEMAN notes that it has not been put in writing, but there
is reference to it under (paragraph) 8, page two. He proposes that
it be inserted in (page 1, section 1) line nine (or ten). He asks
whether Ms. Knuth is able to comment on the insertion.
Number 196
MS. KNUTH replies that she would appreciate the chance to think
about the insertion before commenting. She is aware that
Representative Porter has legislation that intends to reorder the
criteria also, and she would like to examine his legislation before
commenting.
Number 200
SENATOR ELLIS asks Senator Donley if victim's rights under this
legislation will take affect after the defendant has been
convicted, or if it will take affect during the prosecution.
Number 220
SENATOR DONLEY responds the victim's rights will be in effect
throughout the process. He thinks it might be advisable to take
out the penal administration reference in the constitution so it
will apply to the entire criminal justice system. His
understanding is the legislation will affect sentencing through the
end of the defendant's probation or parole term.
Number 233
SENATOR TAYLOR asks Senator Donley where the trigger is, where
these rights would begin. Is it after conviction or before
conviction?
Number 241
SENATOR DONLEY replies that the rights set forth in section two
would apply throughout the criminal justice process, while section
one would apply after sentencing of the defendant.
Number 254
CHAIRMAN LEMAN suggests that members think about and discuss the
legislation and be prepared to decide by Wednesday morning on
language changes that might clarify what part of the criminal
justice process SJR 2 would affect. He then asks if Ms. Lienhart
is ready to testify from Anchorage.
Number 263
JANICE LIENHART, Victim's for Justice, says she is grateful for the
support on SJR 2 from Senator Leman and Senator Donley. She states
that it is traumatic for victims to realize that there are laws to
protect defendants, but not very much protection for victims. The
victim's rights movement is working to get laws passed to give
victims equal rights to defendants. Victims deserve equal rights
under the constitution.
Number 296
CHAIRMAN LEMAN thanks Ms. Lienhart for her testimony and repeats
the changes that have been suggested to the legislation.
Number 314
SENATOR TAYLOR asks Ms. Knuth to what extent the notification of
victims will fiscally affect the state.
Number 326
MS. KNUTH replies that fiscal impact is a concern, in addition to
the concern of increased liability to the state. The state cannot
be a guarantor of safety.
Number 350
MS. LIENHART comments that since victims are already being informed
of their rights, she doesn't think it will add very much to the
fiscal impact.
Number 363
SENATOR TAYLOR asks Ms. Lienhart if she thinks it will cause a
fiscal impact on the Department of Public Safety if the department
is required to notify a victim every time there is a hearing on a
specific case. He is concerned that department personnel would
spend more time tracking down victims for notification, which would
result in less personnel time being spent tracking down criminals.
Number 379
SENATOR DONLEY thinks Senator Taylor has a good point and that the
legislation should be amended so as to set out specific parameters
regarding notification of victims.
Number 328
CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks Senator Donley to work with Ms. Babcock and Ms.
Knuth on language to accommodate the aforementioned concerns.
Number 385
SENATOR DONLEY asks Senator Taylor if he thinks the format in
SJR 2 is appropriate.
Number 391
SENATOR TAYLOR thinks the format is clearer to list out the rights,
one-by-one, rather than enclosed in a single paragraph.
Number 394
CHAIRMAN LEMAN agrees that he thinks it is more clear to have the
rights listed out, rather than in a single paragraph. He then asks
Ms. Knuth if she will be able to join the committee for their
meeting on Wednesday.
Number 396
MS. KNUTH responds that she will be able to do so, and that if
input from the Department of Law is desired on SJR 39 RIGHT TO KEEP
AND BEAR ARMS, to contact Mr. Guinelli in the department.
Number 400
CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks if there is anyone else who wishes to testify
on SJR 2. He announces that SJR 2 will be held until Wednesday's
meeting.
Number 418
CHARLES MCKEE states he thinks victims of misdemeanors should also
be included in victim's rights legislation.
Number 440
CHAIRMAN LEMAN thanks Mr. McKee and announces that the committee
will now hear SB 33. He calls Ms. Kreitzer to the witness stand.
Number 450
SENATOR TAYLOR moves the adoption of CSSB 33(STA). There being no
objection, CSSB 33(STA) is before the committee.
Number 453
ANNETTE KREITZER, Staff to Senator Leman, outlines the changes
between this version of CSSB 33 (STA) and the version before the
committee on January 19, 1994. Language stating "an equal number
of representatives" has been deleted. This language would have
required, as an example, five elected local officials, five
broadcast or print-media persons, five persons from community
groups, etcetera.
Number 466
CHAIRMAN LEMAN interjects it is his understanding that the
guidelines are still consistent with SARA Title III.
Number 467
MS. KREITZER confirms that the guidelines are still consistent with
SARA Title III.
She states that the second amendment is on page 7, lines 14 to 17,
which clarifies that when positions on LEPC's have been advertised
and the LEPC's are still unable to fill that position, the LEPC
will still be able to function.
Ms. Kreitzer notes that an unnecessary repealer has been deleted
under AS 46.04.200(b)(5).
Number 491
SENATOR ELLIS asks Ms. Kreitzer to review the repealers.
Number 492
CHAIRMAN LEMAN notes that there is a list of repealers under
section 21.
Number 495
MS. KREITZER reads the list of repealers under section 21 set forth
in the sponsor's sectional analysis.
Number 503
SENATOR ELLIS asks Ms. Kreitzer about the term "all hazards
commission".
Number 508
MS. KREITZER replies that the term "all hazards commission" refers
to SERC becoming a planning commission for all disasters. SERC
cannot do that without statutory authority, so that is why that
language is in the bill. It is not federal terminology, but SERC's
own terminology.
Number 515
SENATOR ELLIS asks Ms. Kreitzer if the use of the term "all hazards
commission" would make federal funds available for disaster
planning.
Number 516
MS. KREITZER responds that she would have to defer to DMVA on that
question.
Number 519
SENATOR ELLIS withdraws his question, commenting it would appear
that the new language would be a net gain, rather than a net loss.
He then asks if Ms. Kreitzer would explain the grounds for the
decision of responsibility reverting to the state in cases where
local groups choose not to plan for emergencies. He fears that
local areas with budget constraints would give over emergency
planning responsibilities to the state in order to save money.
Number 527
MS. KREITZER replies that those points were addressed in the SERC
task force report of September 1993, which recommended that local
advisory committees still have input into response plans. Funding
constraints are the reason LEPC's are given a choice of having
anywhere from five to thirteen members. The LEPC's recognize that
there is no guaranteed funding for emergency planning.
Number 531
CHAIRMAN LEMAN notes he served on the Anchorage LEPC for some time
and had exposure to what other LEPC's were doing, and he found that
communities do want involvement in emergency planning.
Number 559
SENATOR ELLIS asks what the guarantee is that communities won't
hand the responsibility of emergency planning over to the state if
they have that option, and how could a community better plan for
emergencies than could an experienced planner.
Number 560
CHAIRMAN LEMAN responds that persons within a community generally
have better knowledge regarding the needs of their particular
community than would a trained planner, although a trained planner
is certainly necessary also.
Number 567
SENATOR TAYLOR comments that Senator Ellis raised a good point
regarding how LEPC's will be funded for work on local emergency
plans. Senator Taylor questions whether the 470 fund will be
available for funding LEPC's in their establishment of emergency
plans, and if that was the intention of the legislation.
Number 579
MS. KREITZER replies that DEC administers the 470 fund.
TAPE 94-2, SIDE B
Number 579
MS. KREITZER believes that it is intended for funding to pass
through political subdivisions as pass-through funding to the
LEPC's. She states Senator Taylor is correct in his assumption
that 470 fund monies will be available.
Number 576
SENATOR TAYLOR voices an additional concern that the legislation
will change the policy of establishing and maintaining response
corps and response depots.
Number 567
MS. KREITZER responds that the language Senator Taylor is concerned
with would have the effect of clarifying that hazardous substance
release equipment depots and emergency planning committee depots
should be coordinated so that there is no duplication of effort.
But oil and hazardous substance depots would be paid for out of the
470 fund, though emergency response depots would not be paid for
out of the 470 fund.
Ms. Kreitzer points out to Senator Taylor language in the
legislation on page sixteen stating that DEC and DMVA coordinate
their efforts so that there will be no duplication of services.
Number 547
SENATOR TAYLOR reconfirms that there will be no duplication of
effort between DEC and DMVA. He expresses pleasure that the 470
fund will be used for what it was originally set up to do and that
the state is now worrying about taking care of people, rather than
just taking care of oil on a rock.
Number 542
CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks Mr. Conway if he would like to add anything to
the discussion.
Number 536
SENATOR TAYLOR asks Ms. Kreitzer if there is a provision for
immunity in CSSB 33(STA). Ms. Kreitzer responds that immunity is
provided for in SB 35.
Number 533
MIKE CONWAY, SPAR, Department of Environmental Conservation, says
currently SERC and the LEPC's are oil and hazardous substance by
statute. Many communities in rural areas do not have an interest
in oil and hazardous substance releases. This may change if SERC
and LEPC's become "all hazards" response organizations. Another
problem for very small communities is they may not have available
people to fill all the positions that SARA Title III requires on a
committee. Additionally, communities not able to establish LEPC's
can still form local advisory committees in order to have input in
establishing emergency response plans.
SERC and LEPC's would be authorized to receive response fund monies
from the 470 fund, however, activities must be response fund
eligible in order to receive those funds. So a portion of SERC and
LEPC activities could be funded from the 470 fund. However, in
areas not connected to oil and hazardous substances there will need
to be other funding sources to cover those areas.
Mr. Conway finishes by noting that the depot corps funding language
pertains to "all hazards" or disasters.
Number 490
CHAIRMAN LEMAN thanks Mr. Conway for his comments and asks if
anyone else wishes to testify on SB 33. Hearing none, he asks the
pleasure of the committee.
Number 489
SENATOR TAYLOR motions CSSB 33(CRA) be moved from committee with
individual recommendations.
Number 487
CHAIRMAN LEMAN, hearing no objections, discharges SB 33 from the
State Affairs Committee with individual recommendations.
Number 483
CHAIRMAN LEMAN brings up SJR 39 RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS, and
thanks those waiting for SJR 39 for their patience. He then
provides an update on the history of the issue during this
legislature. The Chairman then calls the first witness.
Number 463
DUANE UDLAND, Deputy Chief of Police, Anchorage Police Department,
states that the position of law enforcement personnel is generally
not opposed to the individual right to keep and bear arms. He
wonders why it is necessary to have the right to keep and bear arms
in the state constitution, and thinks there is plenty of protection
in the constitution and in statute already. He then lists a number
of protections already in law.
Number 425
MR. UDLAND says that police have a deep concern over the effects
the amendment will have in the context of the state constitution.
If the constitution is changed, it must be carefully worded. He
believes that SJR 1 better answers the concerns of law enforcement
and is disappointed that SJR 1 is being rejected in favor of SJR
39. He is concerned that a constitutional amendment would limit
the ability of municipalities and the legislature to pass
reasonable laws regulating firearms that are necessary to protect
the public.
Number 376
SENATOR TAYLOR states that the U.S is facing a flood of weapons
misuse, of which he wouldn't have been able to conceive twenty
years ago. He comments that perhaps everyone should be armed in
order to protect themselves and asks Mr. Udland to respond to this
problem.
Number 332
MR. UDLAND replies that there is no question that violence in this
country is on the increase, but he does not see a solution to the
problem in a constitutional amendment. He questions whether,
within the issue of a constitutional amendment, there is a hidden
agenda to allow concealed firearms. He does think municipalities
should have the option of regulating concealed weapons. Mr. Udland
is also concerned that if the language in SJR 39 is too strict, the
courts will strike down any law regulating possession of firearms.
Number 285
CHAIRMAN LEMAN requests Portia Babcock, Aide to Senate State
Affairs Committee, to make an opening statement on SJR 39.
Number 273
PORTIA BABCOCK, Committee Aide, Senate State Affairs Committee
states that the proposed language in SJR 39 is similar to language
in other states. This legislation is being introduced to protect
and insure the right to keep and bear arms in the future. It is
not intended to change anything today, or to abrogate any laws
currently on the books. An applicable Alaska Supreme Court case
relating to the right to keep and bear arms is the Weaver Case,
which stated that an Alaskan may not possess a switch blade or
gravity knife in their own home because it is a public safety
hazard and is easily concealed and quickly brought to bear. In
this case the constitution was anything but broadly interpreted.
MS. BABCOCK continues, saying that case-law in other states has
consistently upheld felony possession laws, juvenile possession
laws, laws restricting access to persons under the influence of
drugs and alcohol, and persons who have been judged to be mentally
incompetent. Case law has consistently recognized that the right
to keep and bear arms is not an absolute right.
Number 218
SENATOR DONLEY states for the record that the proper judicial
standard of review in terms of balancing firearms rights of
individuals versus the protection of society, is a compelling
public safety interest standard.
Number 197
CHAIRMAN LEMAN thanks Senator Donley for his comment and calls the
next witness.
Number 188
RAY ADVIK, testifying from Meier's Lake, feels that the state has
a role in protecting the right to keep and bear arms.
Number 183
DAN PURITTE, testifying from Meier's Lake, states he believes the
federal government is doing everything it can to take away our
freedom, our rights, and our guns. It is important that the State
of Alaska stand up and commit itself one way or the other.
Number 169
JIM FREY, SR., testifying from Slana, is in favor of SJR 39. He
also favors capital punishment and says that if the state doesn't
implement capital punishment soon, we will have to start doing it
ourselves.
Number 150
RICHARD BISHOP, Alaska Outdoor Council, testifying from Fairbanks,
states that he and the council strongly support SJR 39, though the
council has not taken formal action in support of the bill. He
urges passage of SJR 39.
Number 127
DON DUNCAN, registered guide-outfitter, testifying from Fairbanks,
strongly supports SJR 39 and asks a few rhetorical questions
regarding fire arms. One question Mr. Duncan poses is if he would
be considered a criminal for having a loaded gun in his truck as he
drives by a school on the way out of town to hunt. He believes
that the fewer restrictive gun laws there are, the less crime we
will have.
Number 127
SENATOR DONLEY clarifies for Mr. Duncan that if your gun is encased
while driving by a school, you are not breaking any law.
Number 028
CHAIRMAN LEMAN announces that the committee will not be able to
accommodate everyone wishing to testify and that he intends to move
SJR 39 out of committee today. He then asks if there is anyone on
line who has a statement to make in opposition of SJR 39. The
chairman announces that anyone signed up to testify who does not
respond in opposition to SJR 39 will be recorded as being in
support of SJR 39.
Number 003
MARK CHRYSON, Field Representative for Gun Owners of America,
testifying from Kodiak, says that he is not opposed to SJR 39.
TAPE 94-3, SIDE A
Number 001
MR. CHRYSON says he is opposed to keeping the issue of the right to
keep and bear arms off the ballot. He thinks that the right to
keep and bear arms is a partisan issue and asks the legislature not
to water down this legislation.
Number 031
CHAIRMAN LEMAN thanks Mr. Chryson for his testimony and comments he
does not think the right to keep and bear arms is a partisan issue
and the release of this bill from committee is dependent upon a
democrat.
Number 035
SENATOR DUNCAN says not to count on it (laughter all around).
Number 051
CHARLES MCKEE, testifying from Anchorage, says he represents the
treasury and that he gave documentation to the Bureau of Alcohol,
Tobacco, and Firearms.
Number 069
JOE MURDY, Anchorage Assembly Member, states he is testifying on
his own behalf, not in representation of the Anchorage Assembly.
He supports the right to keep and bear arms, but is concerned that
local governments might no longer have control over weapons within
city limits.
Number 091
CHAIRMAN LEMAN advises Mr. Murdy that SJR 39 will not restrict
municipalities from dealing with appropriate local restrictions on
firearms.
Number 095
SENATOR TAYLOR mentions that Senator Donley noted earlier in the
committee meeting that there was a particular standard that should
be placed on the record as a concern: that standard was one of
public safety.
Senator Donley said, "...the proper judicial standard of
review in terms of balancing firearms rights of individuals
versus the protection of society is a compelling public safety
interest standard."
Senator Taylor wants to state for the record and stress that it is
this standard of public safety which should be applied in regards
to the intent of SJR 39. He states again that it is the intent of
the committee that a standard of compelling public safety interest
will allow municipalities and the state to continue to pass laws
regarding appropriate restrictions on the right to keep and bear
arms, even with a constitutional amendment protecting the right to
keep and bear arms. Senator Taylor does not think that SJR 39 will
restrict, in any way, the ability to pass laws regulating firearms
where a public safety concern exists.
Number 131
MR. MURDY states that his only concern is that the legislation not
restrict the ability of municipalities and the state to pass future
laws regulating firearms where a public safety concern exists.
Number 142
CHAIRMAN LEMAN restates that it is not his intent to restrict the
passage of laws regulating firearms where there is a concern of
public safety. He views SJR 39 as a clarification of existing
constitutional provisions relating to the right to keep and bear
arms. There is a concern that current constitutional law could be
interpreted as a collective right to bear arms and not an
individual right. This would clarify the right to keep and bear
arms as an individual right.
The Chairman asks if there is anyone else on teleconference or in
Juneau who feels they must testify on SJR 39.
Number 164
FREDERICK HEINZ, testifying from Glennallen, states he disagrees
with Mr. Murdy regarding municipalities being able to pass laws
regulating firearms where a public safety concern exists. Mr.
Heinz interprets the constitution literally and believes it is
unconstitutional to restrict firearms in any manner.
Number 177
SENATOR TAYLOR makes a motion to discharge SJR 39 from the Senate
State Affairs Committee with individual recommendations.
Number 180
CHAIRMAN LEMAN, hearing no objection, discharges SJR 39 from the
Senate State Affairs Committee with individual recommendations.
Number 180
CHAIRMAN LEMAN announces that the agenda for Wednesday, January 26,
1994 is SB 253 REAPPLICATION PERIOD FOR 1993 PF DIVIDEND, SB 170
DISPOSITION OF PERMANENT FUND INCOME, SJR 38 RESTRUCTURE PERMANENT
FUND, and bills previously heard.
Number 183
CHAIRMAN LEMAN adjourns the meeting at 10:50 a.m.
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